http://www.gildedserpent.com/cms/2009/08/16/tonyachallenging/ Belly Dance News & Events Fri, 10 Feb 2012 23:52:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 http://www.gildedserpent.com/cms/2009/08/16/tonyachallenging/comment-page-1/#comment-377 Maud Allen: | Belly Dance News & Events Tue, 01 Sep 2009 05:02:18 +0000 http://www.gildedserpent.com/cms/?p=718#comment-377 [...] Challenging Hypocracry: A Response to Miles Copeland’s Article by Tonya The ethical way has been to promote one’s own competition but not degrade someone [...] [...] Challenging Hypocracry: A Response to Miles Copeland’s Article by Tonya The ethical way has been to promote one’s own competition but not degrade someone [...]

]]> http://www.gildedserpent.com/cms/2009/08/16/tonyachallenging/comment-page-1/#comment-368 You Can Take the Dance With You! | Belly Dance News & Events Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:28:14 +0000 http://www.gildedserpent.com/cms/?p=718#comment-368 [...] Challenging Hypocracry: A Response to Miles Copeland’s Article by Tonya The ethical way has been to promote one’s own competition but not to degrade someone [...] [...] Challenging Hypocracry: A Response to Miles Copeland’s Article by Tonya The ethical way has been to promote one’s own competition but not to degrade someone [...]

]]> http://www.gildedserpent.com/cms/2009/08/16/tonyachallenging/comment-page-1/#comment-363 Improvisation: | Belly Dance News & Events Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:55:13 +0000 http://www.gildedserpent.com/cms/?p=718#comment-363 [...] Challenging Hypocracry: A Response to Miles Copeland’s Article by Tonya The ethical way has been to promote one’s own competition but not to degrade someone [...] [...] Challenging Hypocracry: A Response to Miles Copeland’s Article by Tonya The ethical way has been to promote one’s own competition but not to degrade someone [...]

]]> http://www.gildedserpent.com/cms/2009/08/16/tonyachallenging/comment-page-1/#comment-359 Miles Copeland Mon, 17 Aug 2009 23:42:04 +0000 http://www.gildedserpent.com/cms/?p=718#comment-359 I have a lot more appreciation for the ins and outs of bellydance than Tonya gives me credit for and I certainly meant no insult to her competition.  I mentioned it only because it was the only one that I know of that I can see has any real support within the community and it serves a useful purpose and has done so for many years.  (If I have missed another one, or gone blank on one I should know about forgive me)My comment was in no way meant to belittle her event.  In fact, I was only noting it because I considered it good event, that I in fact attended for two days earlier this year.      The main thrust of my comments relate entirely to the work that many of us, Tonya included, have taken on to enhance the status of this dance.  Tonya and many others have done it a lot longer than I have and I have great respect for that.  But so far few, if any, face the daily challenge of planting this dance firmly in the mainstream as I do.  My perspective therefore must be somewhat different.  Over 650 shows in 21 countries, and 5 annual bellydance events will do that.  I would hope people would recognize this, even ones who are perfectly happy, or even prefer to see bellydance remain within its own realm outside what the other dance arts consider to be the "mainstream".  (I of course consider bellydance already in the mainstream but there are many who still disagree).      I just returned from several Asian countries and once again faced the constant request for the BDSS  to give "certificates" at the end of the workshops.  When I asked "what if a student just showed up and had no aptitude whatsoever for bellydance does she still get a "certificate"?  The answer was always yes.  On the surface saying on a piece of paper that someone took a workshop does not sound like a big deal, but in Asia, and I believe elsewhere, these are being used as credentials to justify dancers taking up teaching bellydance who in many cases have little if any clue as to what they are doing.  Even I, a relatively new kid on the block knows you cant take a few lessons in classes of 30-40 or more students and imagine you are now fit to teach bellydance.  Yet I know from reading many comments over the past few years on not only Gilded Serpent, but on Tribe and other sites that this is exactly what has been happening.  This does not happen in Ballet.  Why? Because there are known schools with rigorous training over lengthy periods of time that have given credibility to dance diplomas coming from those schools.  With a few exceptions Bellydance is not there yet and the few that do have real programs face the problem of not everyone agreeing with their take on bellydance for whatever reason, competitive rivalry being the obvious one.  This fact, more than any other, helps maintain the image of bellydance as an amateur pursuit or easy dance for anyone to do.       On one of my Asian stops  a teacher told me that she had taken a class recently from a teacher who looked so great from her resume.  Names like Raqia Hassan, Mahmoud Reda, BDSS teachers etc were among her "teachers" listed.  In fact, upon taking the class the teacher it turns out, was very low level and the extent of her "training" was having taken a few large group classes with the listed teachers.       When I recently rejected the idea of giving certificates for the upcoming workshops in Taiwan I was told "everyone else is doing it".  Perhaps those teachers who have already given out certificates do not realize the extent of how their names and reputations are being used to build someone elses credentials, perhaps it does not matter to them as much as it does to me.  Working with so many teachers within the BDSS as well as with other teachers who work with us at our Raqs events, I cannot afford to have the BDSS name used lightly and with little regard for the long term reputation of the troupe and the teachers we work with.  Perhaps that makes me different from most others in bellydance and as such would give me a different perspective but I believe EVERYONE who is serious in this art has a stake in the overall reputation of the art so I am not so different in reality.  It is with that in mind that I was prompted to comment on Gilded Serpent.  Meanwhile I wish Tonya and her event long life and continued success.  <strong>Miles Copeland</strong> 323.512.4080 posted for Miles by editor I have a lot more appreciation for the ins and outs of bellydance than Tonya gives me credit for and I certainly meant no insult to her competition.  I mentioned it only because it was the only one that I know of that I can see has any real support within the community and it serves a useful purpose and has done so for many years.  (If I have missed another one, or gone blank on one I should know about forgive me)My comment was in no way meant to belittle her event.  In fact, I was only noting it because I considered it good event, that I in fact attended for two days earlier this year.
     The main thrust of my comments relate entirely to the work that many of us, Tonya included, have taken on to enhance the status of this dance.  Tonya and many others have done it a lot longer than I have and I have great respect for that.  But so far few, if any, face the daily challenge of planting this dance firmly in the mainstream as I do.  My perspective therefore must be somewhat different.  Over 650 shows in 21 countries, and 5 annual bellydance events will do that.  I would hope people would recognize this, even ones who are perfectly happy, or even prefer to see bellydance remain within its own realm outside what the other dance arts consider to be the “mainstream”.  (I of course consider bellydance already in the mainstream but there are many who still disagree).
     I just returned from several Asian countries and once again faced the constant request for the BDSS  to give ”certificates” at the end of the workshops.  When I asked “what if a student just showed up and had no aptitude whatsoever for bellydance does she still get a “certificate”?  The answer was always yes.  On the surface saying on a piece of paper that someone took a workshop does not sound like a big deal, but in Asia, and I believe elsewhere, these are being used as credentials to justify dancers taking up teaching bellydance who in many cases have little if any clue as to what they are doing.  Even I, a relatively new kid on the block knows you cant take a few lessons in classes of 30-40 or more students and imagine you are now fit to teach bellydance.  Yet I know from reading many comments over the past few years on not only Gilded Serpent, but on Tribe and other sites that this is exactly what has been happening.  This does not happen in Ballet.  Why? Because there are known schools with rigorous training over lengthy periods of time that have given credibility to dance diplomas coming from those schools.  With a few exceptions Bellydance is not there yet and the few that do have real programs face the problem of not everyone agreeing with their take on bellydance for whatever reason, competitive rivalry being the obvious one.  This fact, more than any other, helps maintain the image of bellydance as an amateur pursuit or easy dance for anyone to do. 
     On one of my Asian stops  a teacher told me that she had taken a class recently from a teacher who looked so great from her resume.  Names like Raqia Hassan, Mahmoud Reda, BDSS teachers etc were among her “teachers” listed.  In fact, upon taking the class the teacher it turns out, was very low level and the extent of her ”training” was having taken a few large group classes with the listed teachers. 
     When I recently rejected the idea of giving certificates for the upcoming workshops in Taiwan I was told “everyone else is doing it”.  Perhaps those teachers who have already given out certificates do not realize the extent of how their names and reputations are being used to build someone elses credentials, perhaps it does not matter to them as much as it does to me.  Working with so many teachers within the BDSS as well as with other teachers who work with us at our Raqs events, I cannot afford to have the BDSS name used lightly and with little regard for the long term reputation of the troupe and the teachers we work with.  Perhaps that makes me different from most others in bellydance and as such would give me a different perspective but I believe EVERYONE who is serious in this art has a stake in the overall reputation of the art so I am not so different in reality.  It is with that in mind that I was prompted to comment on Gilded Serpent.  Meanwhile I wish Tonya and her event long life and continued success. 
Miles Copeland
323.512.4080
posted for Miles by editor

]]> http://www.gildedserpent.com/cms/2009/08/16/tonyachallenging/comment-page-1/#comment-357 Amar Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:22:10 +0000 http://www.gildedserpent.com/cms/?p=718#comment-357 Question to Miles: What do your dancers do when they are no longer with the Superstars? I suspect they do exactly what other professionals must do to survive: perform, produce concerts and DVDs, market themselves, teach and participate/direct in existing events (including competitions), etc.  Also, Miles, you need an editor - your rationale gets smushed by some incoherencies in language and disorganized content. Question to Miles: What do your dancers do when they are no longer with the Superstars? I suspect they do exactly what other professionals must do to survive: perform, produce concerts and DVDs, market themselves, teach and participate/direct in existing events (including competitions), etc.  Also, Miles, you need an editor – your rationale gets smushed by some incoherencies in language and disorganized content.

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